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Author Topic: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)  (Read 1829 times)

Offline Snowman

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Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« on: February 18, 2012, 06:00:29 PM »
Hi all  :)
I thought I would share my breeding success with my Imbricata this season. I think breeding any native animal is a very rewarding project. I used to breed birds and the excitement is just the same if not more so with breeding pythons. Each step is a real buzz. Seeing them copulate, prepare nests, lay eggs and then finally seeing them hatch.
I have noticed a lot of people have bred pythons this year, and many like me, for the first time. We are all very fortunate to have so much information at our finger tips to achieve this.  With the stress of waiting and watching, it is hard not to be grateful to all those who have contributed in sharing their knowledge about breeding SWCP's (and Morelia Spilota in general). Even with all this information I believe there is still a bit of luck involved with the pairing of animals and all the factors involved (such as age, weight and perhaps even compatibility).  I found reading peoples stats on breeding most helpful so I will give mine to add to the rest.

I paired two female's with the one male this season.

This is the male from Greenough (wild caught). (photo from the guy I bought it off. Hope he doesn't mind)


The Female from Greenough (wild caught).


The Female from captive bred Wanneroo x unknown.


Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 06:01:48 PM »
I cycled the SWCP's by shortening the amount of basking time. I stopped feeding around May and started reducing the amount of hours that heat was given once I knew they had well and truly passed all their food. Over summer I give 12/12 of heat and no heat. This was reduced gradually down to 8 hours of heat a day by mid winter (34 degrees) and I gradually returned the amount of heat to 12 hours of heat end of August start of September. I noticed in mid winter that temps got as low as 15 degrees in their enclosures. (However I regret not keeping exact notes on my temps).

My aim was to breed a pair of Imbricata I had acquired from a friend at WAHS. They were wild caught from the Greenough area and had been bred by the previous owner a few years before.
I also had a female of mixed locality that had origins of Wanneroo and an unknown local. A beautiful looking snake, I had considered it perhaps too small to breed at 2kg, but put the male in with her once or twice anyway.
1st of October I put the male (Greenough) in with the female (Greenough) for a week on and week off. By the third week I had noticed no real interest between the two pythons so separated them again until November. At this time I felt nothing was going to happen so I put the male in with the Wanneroo female and observed copulation on the 4-11-11.  I left the male in there for a further two day's then moved him to the other females enclosure where I observed copulation on the 7-11-11. I left the male in there for another two weeks then separated him back into his own enclosure for good.
The Wanneroo laid 7 eggs and 4 slugs. Of the 7 eggs 6 showed to be fertile when candled. I was in Melbourne when they were laid, but luckily the bloke I had house sitting was keeping an eye on them for me. And called me as soon as she started laying eggs. In turn I was able to call a friend, who I am so grateful for (as I didn't know her that well so it was EXTREMELY nice of her to help me out), who came and put the eggs in a container with a mix of vermiculite/water and into the incubator.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:03:59 PM by Snowman »

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 06:04:06 PM »
The incubator I used is a wine fridge conversion. It was a small fridge I got from Big W for $98. A sparky by trade, I was able to wire it up so the thermometer display on the door still worked and the internal fan still powered to keep the warm air even. I also used a probe pulse proportional thermostat. And kept a close eye on temps with a probe thermometer and an infra red thermometer, as the door thermometer did not have decimal point degrees. The temp varied less than .2 degrees except when I opened the door etc.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 06:54:33 PM by Snowman »

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 06:12:24 PM »
The Wanneroo female's stat's are:
Copulating: 4-11-11
Cloundy Eyes: 18-11-11
Slough: 27-11-11
Eggs diposited: 20-12-11
Number of eggs: 7 eggs 4 slugs
Number of fertile eggs: 6
Incubated at: 31.5 degrees
Hatched: 2 x on the 13-02-12 and 4 x on the 14-02-12
Number of days incubated: 49 and 50
Hatchling weights: 21-24 grams


« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:12:21 AM by Snowman »

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 06:27:29 PM »
The Greenough female laid 15 eggs. The same as she did in her first clutch a few years before. I was lucky enough to be home for this clutch and even more lucky that I got up at 3am to shut the windows during a storm and decided to check on my snakes. She was in the middle of laying and had already laid 5 of the 15 eggs when I checked on her. I was able to separate the first 5 and took the next 10 as she laid them.
There wasn’t enough room in the wine fridge incubator so I also set up a foam box incubator. I put 8 in the fridge incubator and 7 in the foam box incubator. The pictures are pretty self explanatory. The lid has a heat cord attached to it with coreflute. I’m using a pulse proportional thermostat and a probe thermometer. I tested both the foam box and the wine fridge incubators for a week before I even had eggs. Also a test with damp vermiculite to see how bad the condensation got. It's important not to have water drip on your eggs as it will kill them!
Though not as much fun to watch and make as the fridge conversion I think this is the best incubator of the two. The over head heating stops any condensation being created and the temps are just as stable. It is also free if you ask the fruit and veg supplier nicely.  :D
The condensation in the fridge did make the eggs swell a lot more, so possibly bigger babies. But at the risk of having the eggs not collapse and the babies not being able to get out of the moist egg. This was only a problem with the smaller containers though. When I noticed the foam box eggs collapsing I left the lid off more often to dry out the mix a little more in the fridge batch.  They seem to be collapsing now and time will tell how they go.




You can see the dark patch on the top left egg. It's where I pulled it off another one. The snake is still growing okay so looks like it will survive.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 09:33:42 PM by Snowman »

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 06:45:06 PM »
The Greenough female's stat's are:
Copulating: 7-11-11
Cloundy Eyes: 3-12-11
Slough: 10-12-11
Eggs diposited: 4-1-12
Number of eggs: 15
Number of fertile eggs: 15
Incubated at: 31.5 degrees
Date hatched foam box inc: 28-02-12
Number Hatched in foam box incubator: 7/7.
Number of days incubated in foam box: 50 ( 4-1-12 to the 28-02-12)
Date hatched in fridge inc:2nd to 3rd March 2012
Number Hatched in fridge incubator: 8/8
Number of days incubated in fridge incubator: 54-54 days

« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 07:55:50 PM by Snowman »

Offline AndrewHenderson

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 07:03:42 PM »
How did you set up the foam incubator? It looks like you just put the wet vermiculite mix in the container and used the box for heating only? I have mine set up with only a slightly damp vermiculite mix in the container, and fill the esky with water about 50mm and use an aquarium heater. I adjusted the heater over the first couple of days and then once set hasn't budged a more than .1 or .2 degrees in the whole time and gets the humidity up into the 98% range.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 07:08:28 PM »
Correct Andrew. The same method I used in the wine fridge incubator. I use a 50/50 mix of vermiculite water. This is done by putting the container on the scales. I then zero the scales and add the vermiculite. I then add enough water to double the weight of the vermiculite and mix it up. It's damp not wet... The containers are then sealed to keep the moisture and humidity in. There are many ways to incubate, I read an American book (translated from German) on incubating reptiles, and it seemed like there are heaps of different ways to incubate reptile eggs. In the end I decided this is what I wanted to try. It seems to work as far as the fridge conversion goes. Will have to wait and see with the foam box. I can see fully developed snakes in both sets of eggs when I candle them. So I'll be very surprised if it doesnt work. At the end of the day eggs are designed to hatch, with a degree of tolerance for certain conditions.
I never bothered measuring humidity. I will if I ever try maternal incubation though.
I was tempted to do it the way you did though. As that is what Dr Rob Browne-Cooper did in KABAP.

EDIT 29 feb 2012
So the foam box incubator got a 100% hatch rate. 7 out of 7 eggs hatched on day 50.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 05:44:14 PM by Snowman »

Offline carpetcleaner

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 07:09:31 PM »
WOW! I am really impressed with the fridge conversion!!!!!!
If you ever wanted to make those and sell them I would definately buy one!!!!!
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's Heaven on Earth.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 07:13:28 PM »
WOW! I am really impressed with the fridge conversion!!!!!!
If you ever wanted to make those and sell them I would definately buy one!!!!!

Cheers CC :)
Probably not worth it once you add it all up. It was a fun project though and more about "making something" than being cost effective. No doubt a free fridge on the verge would make the exersise cost effective.
Cost me:
$98 for the fridge
$20 heat cord
$110 for the pulse proportional thermostat
$5 coreflute
Total: $233

Offline Orangamanda

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 07:53:02 PM »
Snowman, that is super cool, Thank you for all the information you shared.
 I like the veiwing of the bar fridge, and the
really,  even at 230$ it's a good investment, im sure it will last for many years. The sticker on the fome esky made me laugh!

I  think this year will be a good year encourage new keepers into the python as pets hobby! 

Sounds almost as exciting and nervous as having children!

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 08:07:27 PM »
Snowman, that is super cool, Thank you for all the information you shared.
 I like the veiwing of the bar fridge, and the
really,  even at 230$ it's a good investment, im sure it will last for many years. The sticker on the fome esky made me laugh!

I  think this year will be a good year encourage new keepers into the python as pets hobby! 

Sounds almost as exciting and nervous as having children!

Thanks :)
I think you are right. More pythons at a better price may get more people into the hobby. I'm giving one away to the guy who was house sitting for me. It will be his first and he is VERY excited about it.

steve1

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 08:26:37 PM »
I seen those bar fridges I wonder if you can still get em.

It's a good investment considering $110 is the thermostat which can be used elsewhere if need be.

Is it just a 5watt 4 metre heat cord ?

Offline Snowman

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 08:37:33 PM »
Yeah just a 15w heat cord. I had to replace the wine racks with some flat ones too. That's true I could use the thermostat elsewhere.
Out of stock online. Might be some in stores still...
http://www.bigw.com.au/home-garden/garden-outdoor/coolers/bpnBIGW_0000000244255/
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:42:25 PM by Snowman »

Offline Sinners121

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Re: Beginners Luck (breeding SWCP)
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 08:40:00 AM »
where can i get one of those stickers??
2 bearded Dragons, 1 stimmie, 1 carpet python

 

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