Court win has benefits for all private keepers

[bluetongue]

You were clear in what you said... no worries there.  I do not want to see the thread hijacked by a discussion on venomoids. 

What I do want to see is straight up answers to the questions asked about statements made in the opening post.

I might add that these are not topical questions and quite deliberately so.  They are simple questions about facts that underly the statements made and that should be clearly and unequivocally answered. I am patiently waiting Adder.

Mike

[Notechis]

Mike, You wont get straight answers, Hoser has 30+ years experience in feeding everyone Bullshit that he has lost track of reality.

[bluetongue]

Just as well I am a patient man (with an intolerance for bovine excrement).

[gusss]

Is this how your safe catching methods are taught during your venomous courses(or should we say venomoid course) Adder?

http://youtu.be/UjVdYsMkrlk

[cassa-rowles]

Oh yay a troll! I love feeding trolls! 

Can you tell me how to run my business again please mister addled adder?

[carpetcleaner]

Good grief! That was like watching Vladimir Putin in action. Ewww! Tricky indeed! Bahahaha!

[urodacus_au]

Someone shoot this bastard and be done with it, it's getting old.

[adder]

Dear all,
For those who complain about me not answering questions,
I should point out that I do get sick and tired of answering "fishing" questions on a regular basis, dealing with false claims and the like and to beat the problem, you will find my websites have FAQ pages where the same old questions are answered, be they about venomoids, their uses and the benefits of the state for both snake and human.
Now I believe venomoids are eminently sensible for training purposes as does the Victorian Worksafety authority, but they were over-ruled by a corrupt wildlife department, who on 7 Feb 2099 were shown to be recklessly culpable about public safety (172 people killed in an avoidable bushfire disaster).
I also note that those who post against venomoids have NO EXPERTISE on them be that in their creation or the snakes themselves and so I treat their claims with the contempt they deserve.
Anyway...
Here's another reason why venomoids may have a use in snake training courses and this includes an avoidance of near fatal snakebites  ...
see below from the tabloids (- accuracy warning -)
START CLIP
Snake mishandler Peter Carter fined over venomous tiger snake bite
by: MALCOLM HOLLAND ENVIRONMENT REPORTER
From: The Daily Telegraph
July 24, 2012 12:00AM
Famed central western NSW snake handler Peter Carter watches as a member of the public holds a venomous snake during a snake handling session in 2009 at a Bathurst pet shop. Source: Supplied
HE was simply known as "the snake handler" - famous throughout the state's central west for his shows.
But Peter Carter was so confident of his serpent knowledge he ignored the strict safety rules he preached when teaching a group of novices how to handle venomous reptiles.
At one evening event in a Bathurst pet store, tiger snakes and coastal taipans - which can both deliver a lethal bite - slithered across the shop floor among the guests.
A tiger snake lunged at a man in his 30s and sank its fangs into his arm. He was rushed to Bathurst Base Hospital in a serious condition.
Department of Primary Industries exhibited animals manager Matthew Crane said the victim had suffered a "life threatening" bite and spent several days in hospital.
Photos taken on the evening in 2009, and submitted to court, show Carter watching as a member of the public holds a venomous snake, with a pile of red bags containing other snakes in the background. Another photo shows a deadly coastal taipan, which Carter was not permitted to keep, wriggling across the floor.
The court heard Carter, of Blue Ridge Rd, Bathurst, had failed to erect the barriers required by law to separate him and the snakes from the people he was teaching.
Carter was yesterday convicted in Bathurst Local Court of five offences and ordered to pay fines and costs of $40,000. He is also no longer authorised to "display animals or keep them for display purposes".
The court heard the coastal taipan had been photographed as it moved towards a member of the public sitting in a chair.
"This case sends a very clear signal that public safety is taken very seriously, that negligence won't be tolerated and that failure to obtain the necessary authorities is unacceptable," Mr Crane said.
Carter pleaded guilty to three counts of exhibiting an animal of prescribed class without a permit.
But he escaped conviction for failing to report the biting of the 30-year-old-man because the tiger snake he was using for his training sessions was owned by a friend who also attended the evening.

end CLIP

The statement ""This case sends a very clear signal that public safety is taken very seriously, that negligence won't be tolerated and that failure to obtain the necessary authorities is unacceptable," Mr Crane said." is questionable in that in NSW, they don't use venomoids in any courses!

All the best

[Wally]

A little poem I have stuck on the fridge.

The ****er from down under has made another blunder,
He's lost the plot entirely and keeps putting others down'
His credibility is in tatters, but it doesn't seem to matter'
He doesn't seem to know that he's the herp worlds foremost clown.

After what he did on television, what a dreadful sight'
Those who know of this performance ask how he sleeps at night'
But he doesn't, thats the answer this ray of sunshine stays awake'
Planning yet more mischief , while playing with his snake.

Words of common usage he claims just for his own'
His arrogance apparent as he sits upon his throne'
In his world of litigation he thinks he is the king'
But overwhelming opinion is he's just a ding a ling.

He knows his way around the courts, though his record isn't great'
He's turned so many people off him, its just as well he's his own best mate'
And if he wants another trademark, ****ER would suit well'
No-One could argue with it as his actions clearly tell.

And if you wonder why he keeps it up, why he won't give us a break'
Its because a small part of his anatomy, is paired, just like a snake...

[bluetongue]

Dear Adder,
The existing questions I am awaiting on answers to do not seem to fall within your stated umbrella of... "fishing" questions on a regular basis, dealing with false claims and the like... They are simply asking you to explain or vindicate claims YOU made in your opening post.  Paraphrased from post #12...
With respect to your venomous snake handling courses and your reptile displays, what exactly do you mean by a “perfect safety record”?
Under what specific circumstances did Andrew Smith get bitten and how does that relate to his death resulting from your inability to provide your teachings services? 

Adder, you wrote:  “Now I believe venomoids are eminently sensible for training purposes as does the Victorian Worksafety authority, but they were over-ruled by a corrupt wildlife department, who on 7 Feb 2099 were shown to be recklessly culpable about public safety (172 people killed in an avoidable bushfire disaster).”
Would you please provide the basis for your claims that DSE “were shown to be recklessly culpable about public safety” and that the bushfire disaster in question was “avoidable”.  (A couple of typos corrections – death toll was 173 and the year was 2009).

I seriously doubt that the provision of venomoids would have any effect on the likes of an individual  who has shown a propensity to ignore legal regulations on several fronts – free handling by “students” of highly venomous snakes,  lack of barriers, allowing venomous snakes free reign amongst seated participants, utilising highly venomous and dangerous species not permitted by licence. Clearly, these are not the values that responsible herpetologists would wish to see advocated, wether it be dealing with captives or in the field.  The type of argument you need to vindicate the use of venomoids is where you can demonstrate that all the correct procedures were being followed and that someone still came to grief.

Please, I really would like some answers.
Cheers
Mike

[bluetongue]

Adder,

You have had an excessive amount of time and reminders to answer a few simple and fair questions but have failed to do so.  Leaving that aside, it is time to expose the false and heinous reality of some your claims.

You wrote: “While it is gratifying to see a wrong decision reversed, this reversal came too late for at least one man (Andrew Smith) who is now dead from snakebite as a result of Snakebusters being unable to provide services as originally booked and him then having to engage the services of a less experienced and unsafe provider.”  Yet you are unable or unwilling to provide details of how the man was bitten or how your teaching would have avoided his death.  You state categorically in one of you U-tube videos: “Our graduates generally don’t get bitten”, clearly an admission of the possibility that this can occur.  Appropriate first procedures were followed and Andrew was driven to the local hospital and was receiving treatment between 10 and 15 minutes after the bite.

You wrote: “Now I believe venomoids are eminently sensible for training purposes as does the Victorian Worksafety authority, but they were over-ruled by a corrupt wildlife department, who on 7 Feb 2099 were shown to be recklessly culpable about public safety (172 people killed in an avoidable bushfire disaster).” A Royal Commission was established to investigate the causes of this tragedy.  I have not read the four volumes of the proceedings but I have read the recommendations that the commissioners produced.  DSE (Victoria) feature in very few of those recommendations and the suggested modifications of their current procedures are minimal and of an essentially very minor nature. This is on the public record for all to see and verify. 

You stated that the above disaster was “avoidable”.  The reality is that it occurred under conditions of highly unseasonal severe drought for several months over the Victorian summer, followed by the hottest sequence of temperatures on record since official recording began, culminating in a day on which Melbourne experienced its hottest ever maximum temperature of 46.4oC.  at the same time other nearby official recording stations registered even higher records, while the average wind speed experiences across much of the state in the hottest part of the day was an average around 100 kph.  While evening temperatures cooled somewhat, the winds changed direction at right angles, blowing across the length of the fires and with increased strength to120 kph on average. Avoidable?

In your defence, someone did stand up and say at a public forum and say that it was due to fuel loads.  A familiar and believable argument...  but only on the surface.  Fire scientist Dr Kevin Tolhurst stated at a seminar on 21 April 2009 that: “The extreme weather dominated the fire behaviour rather than fuel loads which played a lesser role.”  As an example, he mentioned the Lara bushfire on grass paddocks on 8 January 1969 along the Geelong Road that killed 17 people trapped in their cars. In total, 280 fires broke out on the 8th of January 1969. Of these, 12 grass fires reached major proportions and burnt 250,000 hectares. The fires also destroyed 230 houses, 21 other buildings and more than 12,000 stock.  The commissioners found no major contribution from fuel load controls in the ‘Ash Saturday’ fires. You would do well to read their recommendations to acquaint yourself with the truth.

Apart from those killed in the fires, there are well in excess of four hundred officially recorded as injured and who knows how many more suffered injuries not requiring hospitalisation or registered medical treatment. The loss of homes, business premises, properties and stock affected many thousands of people.  Don’t forget to include the family members and other relatives and friends of those killed, injured or otherwise devastated who were also deeply affected by this tradgedy. Yet you are prepared to say it was avoidable and that someone was culpably to blame.  You would willingly risk re-opening the immense suffering and trauma of so many with a falsity, for what are tantamount to trivial selfish reasons. You would willingly risk doing the same for a young wife who has lost her partner again for the same reasons.

Have you anything to say for yourself?

Mike 
 

[Bloomers]

Blue,

He is probably too busy with his lawyers at present to reply to you now.

Though dont quote me on that

Bloomers

[bluetongue]

Bloomers,

He will read it.  And he is never too busy to reply when it suits him.  I most definitely want an answer to the questions I have asked.  His lack of response to these questions can only be interpreted in one way...

Just like my concerns over his promulgating unsafe snake handling practices worldwide on the net, I think it important to expose his horrendous distortion of facts and underscore his total disregard for the sufferring of others... all in the name of self promotion.

It doesn't require name calling to put his actions into their true perspective.

Cheers,
Mike

[bohdi13]

Use tongs to attack snakes - gets killed - says it all!!!

Pity the thugs who use tongs to attack snakes seek to attack Snakebusters using false names on a chat forum because we don't!

from what i have seen and heard you are the thug , taking out the venom glands out of a clearly helpless elapid without any anesthetic , and in one or two of your videos using the pinning the head down technique from all this you have no valid comment on being a thug , please leave.

cheers bohdi.

[bohdi13]

A little poem I have stuck on the fridge.

The ****er from down under has made another blunder,
He's lost the plot entirely and keeps putting others down'
His credibility is in tatters, but it doesn't seem to matter'
He doesn't seem to know that he's the herp worlds foremost clown.

After what he did on television, what a dreadful sight'
Those who know of this performance ask how he sleeps at night'
But he doesn't, thats the answer this ray of sunshine stays awake'
Planning yet more mischief , while playing with his snake.

Words of common usage he claims just for his own'
His arrogance apparent as he sits upon his throne'
In his world of litigation he thinks he is the king'
But overwhelming opinion is he's just a ding a ling.

He knows his way around the courts, though his record isn't great'
He's turned so many people off him, its just as well he's his own best mate'
And if he wants another trademark, ****ER would suit well'
No-One could argue with it as his actions clearly tell.

And if you wonder why he keeps it up, why he won't give us a break'
Its because a small part of his anatomy, is paired, just like a snake...

you sir ,are a legend .