Court win has benefits for all private keepers

[Niall]

Pity the thugs who use tongs to attack snakes seek to attack Snakebusters using false names on a chat forum because we don't!

Haha you need to get your facts right before posting on a public forum old fella!
If you actually got to know people and other reptile hobbyist, you'll find that none of those people above actually use tongs, so stop making up crap and using false claims.

I would like to see you answer Brownhash's questions that he left nice and clear for you, since you are own to avoid questions when it comes to you being wrong.

Another question, just out of curiosity.
Do you use your tame venomoid snakes for snake courses, or do you use un-tame Elapids (venom glands still intact) for the courses to show  people first hand on what the snakes will be like when they encounter them in the wild/ on call outs.
Tryed finding it on your website but there was crap everywhere and gave up.

Cheers.

[Bluetongue]

I would agree that the return of your snakes is a win for the industry.  However, there are a few points in the body of your post I would like clarified please Adder.

With respect to your running of venomous snake handling courses, what do you mean by a “perfect safety record”...
-   Does this mean that no-one who has done your course has ever died from snake bite?
-   Or does it mean that anyone who has done your course has never been bitten by a venomous snake thereafter?

With respect to your reptile displays, again what do you mean by a “perfect safety record”?

Under what exact circumstances was Andrew Smith bitten and how does this relate to your teaching?

Mike

[BrownHash]

With respect to your running of venomous snake handling courses, what do you mean by a “perfect safety record”...
-   Does this mean that no-one who has done your course has ever died from snake bite?
-   Or does it mean that anyone who has done your course has never been bitten by a venomous snake thereafter?

Adder, in addition to Mike's questions I would also like to know:

-       If someone is bitten by one of the snakes (venomiod), does it still count as a perfect safety record?

[adder]

Questions answered:

"Adder, in addition to Mike's questions I would also like to know:

-       If someone is bitten by one of the snakes (venomiod), does it still count as a perfect safety record? "

YES - That is obvious!!!!!!!
That is what our less experienced competitors called our "unfair advantage", due to their lack of expertise to be able to get their own venomoids.

In answer to the questions about Andrew Smith, I will say that these are ALL answered in the media release I posted.  I suggest you put your flame thrower away and re-read the release instead.

All the best

[Snowman]

It's like training soldiers with nerf guns. Then when they actually go to war they've never handled a gun with live amo.

[Wally]

An exercise in futility gents.

[Niall]

If he does use captive venomiod snakes for a 'venomous snake course', I hope  the course is free since that would not teach the people the true personality of wild snakes.

It might cover his ass but I would be cringing when people encounter their first wild eastern brown or western brown,
after doing that course...

[winny]

HELLO Not really a Ven Snake Course if the Snakes are not Venomous. 
This must be the course for people that are scared of Venomous Snakes but want to say they have handled a Daaaannnnngerous Snake, See what a big person I am.
Seriously I find this thread like all the others Hoser has posted are a waste of time.

[Bluetongue]

With respect to teaching of how to handle venomous snakes, there is a place for venomoids. You don’t want to be exposing learners to full on wild venomous snakes straight up. You want people to master the basics without a risk of being envenomed.  As they work their way through the skills required and before they are certified, you want then exposed to as close a circumstances as you can get to what they will encounter in the wild.  So extremely docile well-handled snakes with venom apparatus in tact are a good starting point.  Venomoid snakes that haven’t been well-handled and behave more like a wild snake are probably an even better starting point. But the finish point has to be the real deal – just like they will encounter in call outs etc where you won’t be around to instruct.
Please Note: I don’t want to open the venomoid debate again.  My comments are based on the fact that they do exist and how they might best be utilised.

I am reminded of the TV show “Kung fu” where ‘grasshopper’ has to walk a wooden plank slightly wider than his foot above a pool of acid. Halfway along he loses it and falls in, only to be told it is water.  Of course he then fairly skips along the plank knowing it is water.  TV fantasy but it illustrates an important point about people. Your competencies and confidence are influenced by the situation you believe you are in.  So while I believe venomoids would be great to start training people until they develop the necessary skills, I also believe it is in their best interest to graduate to genuinely venomous while still under supervision.

Mike

[Bluetongue]

Adder,

As you suggested, I have read the media releases on your site (and any others I could find) as well as your initial post again. None of them provide a definition of what you mean by a “perfect safety record” This claim is made repeatedly for your two main activities, those being reptile displays and teaching of how to handle venomous snakes. I simply want you to explain what this means in the context of those two activities. If they were self explanatory, I would not need to ask.  The term “safety” is a particularly broad term which can be applied to a whole range of aspects. I think it a fair ask that you explain it in simple terms because Given how often you state this I reckon it is fair cop to ask for a simple explanation.

You provide absolutely no details surrounding the death of Andrew Smith, other than your claim his demise was due to the inferior teaching practices of another service provider who advocates the use of tongs.  My question is, can you tell us under what exact circumstances Andrew Smith was bitten and how does this relate to your teaching?  You attribute his death to poor teaching.  I want to know on what basis you came to that conclusion, given that you have publically stated and indicated had you taught him it would not have happened.  Again, that is fair cop I reckon.

Mike

[steve1]

Raymond, have any of your students been bitten by a venomoid  in the process of capturing during a handling course?
 

[BrownHash]

Raymond, have any of your students been bitten by a venomoid  in the process of capturing during a handling course?
 

This was going to be my next question.

[winny]

Bluetongue
I understand the points you make. However I personally believe while a Python and a Ven have differences as do each and every animal I have come across, Pythons are a good way to start for beginners.
Courses can always be started by bagging a python, progress on to tame Ven (Snake used to being bagged) before moving to a Ven that will act more like a wild animal. I can see NO reason for Venomoids.
Andrew

[Bluetongue]

I did not say that there were no alternatives. What I very clearly said was that my comments are based on the fact that they do exist and how they might be best utilised.  I made no suggestion that venomoids should be produced for this, or any other purpose.

It concerns me when emotions override reason and people trivialise everything written solely on the basis of the author. In my opinion, judgemnet should be passed solely on the basis of what has be written.  An appropriate evaluation of what has been written will then reflect fairly on the author.

Mike

[winny]

Bluetongue
I understand the points you make.

I just wanted to point out that I see No Reason for Venomoids, I agree they exist and agree with you that they are best used for handeling courses, I would however also point out I hope that when these animals pass away they should not be replaced, that encludes venom glands being removed by a vet. I think we are on the same page Bluetongue just got wires twisted, I find it hard to put into words what I wish to say without it coming across wrong. I need a forum with live chat 
or perhaps I should have listened to my parents and studied hard when at school.